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Post by Casey C on Feb 4, 2014 14:28:50 GMT
Knowing means that you are absolutely positive that what you know is factual and true. For example" if someone managed to escape they would be shot" they know this because they knew that they would be shot because that's what happened to the people that tried to escape. A real world example is the Seattle Seahawks won the super bowl this year because there is factual evidence to back that up.
Believing is thinking that something to it true but having no evidence that states this to back up what you believe. An example from the book is they are Jewish and that is why horrible things happen to them. This is belief because they are choosing to believe in god even though there is no evidence to prove he is. A real world example is i am a Christian and i believe in god even though there is no proof.
Being mad or "crazy" is believing things that aren't very believable and getting judged into a category basically saying that what they say is crazy and not real even though it cold be. an example in the book is when the woman said she saw fire everyone thought she was crazy. for example they put people who they believe to be mad or crazy in asylums there for they are getting placed there for their crazy beliefs.
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Post by Joshua S. on Feb 4, 2014 14:29:53 GMT
To know something is to truly understand something and to know what you are talking about in that subject. that subject or piece of information. In the book Elie says "We still had a few provisions left. But we never ate enough to satisfy our hunger. To save was our rule; To save up for tomorrow. Tomorrow might be worse." In this part of he book they realize and they KNOW how bad things are and they KNOW how bad things can be and how they are currently. They know that tomorrow they might not get food or that they could even die tomorrow. Today this compares to people that live in countries that are troubled by Al Qaeda, they know that any day they could be killed in the streets by a band of terrorists. They KNOW how bad these people can be, and what they have done in the past to know that anything is possible.
To believe in something is to have even the slightest amount of hope or trust in something whether it is an idea or person. In the book Elie and his father have a conversation outside of Auschwitz "I'm not quite fifteen. No your eighteen. Bun i'm not, i'm fifteen. You fool listen to what i say." He believe this man and trusted him with his life when he went up to the officer that determined whether he was to live or to be burned alive in a a crematory. In situation like these we don't know whether to trust them or whether it is a planned for him to have you killed. Since he was there before them, both him and his father trusted him and they were both able to make it through to the concentrations camps that followed.
To be truly mad i believe must involve even small amounts of psychosis in a person, but i also believe you can be madly lost in the idea of something and lose sight of everything else in the world. in the book there is a women on the train that has a mental breakdown whether is was from what sh had heard about where they were going or whether she was schizophrenic we will never know. She shouted things like "The fire! The furnace! Look over there!..." In the book Elie claimed to have been frightened by her her screams, but that is nothing compared to what happened to him next.
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Post by Whitney B. on Feb 4, 2014 14:30:48 GMT
To know something is "to be aware of through observation, inquiry, or information." It doesn't have to be a true statement but it is something you know. We know somethings that aren't true that we have been told. If you have seen or heard of something then you know it. The Jews in Night knew of the concentration camps. They didn't believe about it when Moshie the Beadle told them about it. To believe is similar to know, but you have to be sure, and believe what you know. "To accept (something) as true; feel sure of the truth of" means to believe. It is much harder to believe in something than to know. To believe you have to accept and believe that it is true. It is much easier to believe in something you have been told once you see it. After the Jews got to the concentration camps, they then believed in them.
*didnt finish*
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Post by Morgan H on Feb 4, 2014 14:30:59 GMT
When knowing something it means to believe or have faith in something you have seen or heard. You may not have proof for your statement but you believe in it and keep the fact that you know some part of evidence from what you believe. "The beloved objects that we had carried with us from place to place were now left behind in the agon and with them, finally, our illusions." I feel that this quote shows that what these people thought that they knew was wrong. They thought things would be better in these camps since they were isolated but that was the opposite. They believed in things that they heard from others without any evidence that the camps were "retreats and resting camps" but they never guessed it was like this. You can see that believing something and actually seeing it for yourself are different. A real world example for this can be that when people come to conclusions to quickly based off of what they heard. They judge each other on false information that has been passed around and they can't tell which it true.
To believe someting is to accept something as true; feel sure of the truth. It's what all the Jews wanted to think. They wanted to believe that they would be set free and that they would get out as they came in. "We must do something. We can't let them kill us like that, like cattle in the slaughterhouse. We must revolt." The Jewish people wanted to believe that they could fight back for whats right and spare their lives as well as others if they just stand up for what they believe in which was getting out of the concentration camps and not being treated like animals. A real world example of this is the saying "seeing in believing". People tend to believe in whatever they see on the tv or internet. They don't need the evidence they believe what they want or believe what they know is true.
Madness is the state of being mentally ill. My quote from the book is "She continued to scream and sob fitfully. Jews listen to me, I see fire! I see huge flames!
It was as though she was possessed by an evil spirit. We tried to reason with her, more to calm ourselves, to catch our breath, than to soothe her.
Didn't finish! |
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Post by sofiav on Feb 4, 2014 14:31:09 GMT
to know to to be positive about a fact, you would need evidence and proof to know something. A real life example is when to make something a scientific fact it must first go through several tests so that one could say with no uncertainty that they know that the scientific fact is true. An example from the book night would be when he knew that certain Nazis was nicer to younger children "like the head of the camp, he liked children. immediately after our arrival, he had bread brought for them, some soup and margarine."
to believe to truly think that something is true or fact even if the is no proof to back it up a good example of this is religion because even though there is no proof that there is a good yet thousands believe in a higher power. an example of a belief found in the book is when he believe that his father how to march "i decided to give my father lessons in marching in step, in keeping time." he has no proof that teaching him will help but he tries anyway.
to be mad to to lose all sense of reality and to lose sanity along with it
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Post by Alexandre M on Feb 4, 2014 14:32:08 GMT
to know means to know something about its physicality. He that they kept and killed the Jews, and he would know cause he went to one for a bit. and that he should believe in something means that even though you don't see it doesn't mean its not real and what that means s that even though you didn't see the holocaust doesn't mean it wasn't real. When someone says your mad like you've gone crazy and that they don't believe you than that's just means that have no common sense and that you know what happened and don't make what anyone says change that cause if you saw it and went through it than its real to you and many others so don't let people change what you know because you lived through it and you saw what happened so don't listen to negative people they'll only hurt you more. what it means to know is that you know what happened and that you know what all these people went through and that even though some cant believe you shouldn't stop cause it just like I said just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean its not real so seeing it believing so you know what you know and you don't let anyone change that cause if you don't stop trying to tell people about what happened in the holocaust then no one will know what happened and another one might start and that will be worse cause with all of the ideas these people cant now a days you don't know what they'll do to get power and on thing is we don't need anymore people running around just killing people they don't like you need to let the court and police deal with them and just because it happened and we know what happened it doesn't mean it wont happen again someone's gonna get power and start killing people so I think we should stop thinking its not real we need to find out ways to stop it if it ever happens again so I think instead not believing cause we haven't seen we need to believe what these people are telling cause if we don't try to stop it now then letting it start because if you've seen all of things these people went through to survive and what families had taken away from them and the thing they did to survive and things they would do to stay out of the camps and to save money and I hope this doesn't happen again cause that was a terrible thing that man did to all those people, So I hope that that of you unbelievers out their believe and see what happened cause a lot of people lost their families and other loved ones during this holocaust.
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Post by Alexandre M on Feb 4, 2014 14:33:54 GMT
Knowing means that you are absolutely positive that what you know is factual and true. For example" if someone managed to escape they would be shot" they know this because they knew that they would be shot because that's what happened to the people that tried to escape. A real world example is the Seattle Seahawks won the super bowl this year because there is factual evidence to back that up. Believing is thinking that something to it true but having no evidence that states this to back up what you believe. An example from the book is they are Jewish and that is why horrible things happen to them. This is belief because they are choosing to believe in god even though there is no evidence to prove he is. A real world example is i am a Christian and i believe in god even though there is no proof. Being mad or "crazy" is believing things that aren't very believable and getting judged into a category basically saying that what they say is crazy and not real even though it cold be. an example in the book is when the woman said she saw fire everyone thought she was crazy. for example they put people who they believe to be mad or crazy in asylums there for they are getting placed there for their crazy beliefs. |
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Post by Nina M. on Feb 4, 2014 14:34:07 GMT
What does it mean to know?
To know means to actually have a fact inside your head, and realizing what that fact means and if it is true or not. For example, I know that my birthday is in November because it is a fact- it has been written on my birth certificate and I celebrate my birthday on the same day in that month every year. These two things supporting the fact/the thing I know actually make it true, which really does make it something that I know rather than something that I just believe. You need to have evidence to support something that you know, which doesn't really apply to something that you believe. In Night, Ellie knew that the Germans were killing Jews by throwing them in the fire pit because he saw it with his own eyes, "Not far from us, flames, huge flames, were rising from a ditch. Something was being burned there. A truck drew close and unloaded its hold: small children. Babies! Yes, I did see this, with my own eyes ... children thrown into the flames." Ellie knew that the Germans had planned to kill them because he had real evidence.I agree with Carly because Elie saw everything happening before his own eyes. That is truly knowing, even though he didn't have much proof at the time, there are now many different stories from many different people. His story matches up with most of theirs. |
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Post by Alex H on Feb 4, 2014 14:34:25 GMT
Knowing Is when you are absolutely sure about something , In page 39 an SS officer tells them that if they don't work they will be burned. Elie and all the other Jews know that without working they will be thrown in the chimney, because of what they've seen, and the seriousness of the SS officer. TOday we have more access to information then ever before, and with all of this knowledge comes anger, because if we think everything is true, we will make bad and incorrect decisions based on false knowladge, in other words we will be believing, instead of knowing.
Believing is where there is now evidence, but you are sure that you know its true, even if it isn't. The Nazi's use this to motivate the jews to work, by puting the sign saying "work makes you free" this makes the jews work harder, because they think that they will be rewarded for their work. This is used all the time in today's society to drive decisions. For example advertising, they lie about their products, so you belive that their product is healthier, cheaper, smarter, or better than all the other products, and give you faulse facts so you think you are knowing, but really you are simply believing.
Being mad is where you are in a state of reality, where normal thoughts and interactions are prevented. a sign of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecti ng a diffrent result, this is because you dont understand the interactions between things while insane. In the book mrs schachter is going insaine in the book, by screaming fire fire, over and over, I think she is trying, like moshie to warn the jews, but they wont listen so she is doing it over and over, I think she was a witness, like moshie, or belived his stories. Now, insanity is treatablle, but still affects many people, often after they come back from war. This shows that insanity is driven by fear and helplessness.
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Post by Garrett T. on Feb 4, 2014 14:34:35 GMT
Knowing is when you have proof of something. You need to have some kind of evidence or you have to have seen it for yourself. Believing something means that you may have some proof or evidence but you haven't seen it for yourself which means you have to trust the person or thing that is giving you the proof or evidence. For example in Night on pg 39 "We thought that nothing could frighten us anymore." After seeing so much they BELIEVED that nothing could be worse. Madness is a form of crazy I guess you could say. When you don't know what your talking about or talking crazy. You may not be right in the head either. Garrett T.You don't state any really good text examples like Moishe the beadle, or the crazy fire obsessed lady on the train and the soup bowl thief/hangings. Those were times where you could find the beliefs of the people, the madness of the German Nazis, and the Knowing of Elie Wiesel of the fellow friends of him. |
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Post by Amanda F on Feb 4, 2014 14:34:47 GMT
Knowing means that you have information that is true and real. In order to know you need proof to explain everything. "Then for no apparent reason, he let out a terrible scream, a death rattle such as i had never heard before and, with an open mouth, thrust his head toward the still steaming liquid. We jumped at the sound of the shot." Pg 60. If you disobeyed orders you would be hurt or killed. For example, I know that my health paper is due today because it is typed on the rubric the teacher gave us. Belief is where you think something is going to happen or has happened but you have no real proof. "Look! Look at this fire! This terrible fire! Have mercy on me!" Pg 25. When other people looked for the fire nobody saw it, but she still believed there was a fire. For example, I believe that some magic tricks could be real but I have no proof. Madness is where something literally drives you crazy so you can't function properly. "She is hallucinating because she is thirsty, poor woman... That's why she speaks of flames devouring her..." pg 25 She believed so strongly in the flames that she kept screaming and trying to warn the other prisoners. She was right about the flames, but at the time nobody believed her because she was hysterical. For example, something that is mad (crazy) is when somebody believes that Africa is a country when they are 30 years old.
Garrett T. You make really good points here but I think maybe some of the real world examples aren't showing a strong meaning of such a topic like this. Distinguishing between Madness, Knowing, Belief in the days of the holocaust, especially in Auschwitz which is the worst camp to go to. Amanda F: I like your point about how you need proof to know that something is true. This is just like in class when we were talking about how to believe people, you need to have other experiences from other people like yours, documenting it in pictures, words, and videos. You also need a credible source. In your example it meets these things because you have the Health paper and rubric from a credible source (the teacher) and so it is easy to know that that assignment was true. |
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Post by Sloan B on Feb 4, 2014 14:35:03 GMT
what does it mean to know?
To 'know', in its true form, is to be definite. If you 'know' something, in your mind, it is certain and true. Actually 'knowing' something, means it is true information. You can believe you know something, when in reality, you don't at all. You can back it up with proof or experiences. In the beginning of the test, an early quote, Ellie said
"I set to paper an experience in which nothing made any sense?
In retrospect I must confess that I do not know, or no longer
know, what I wanted to achieve with my words."
Though he wanted so badly to write this text, to convey his message, he didn't know why. He had no certain motive behind it, or a clear answer. And, that, is what 'knowing; is, in simplistic words. It is to be clear, to know indefinitely. Also:
"There no longer was any distinction between rich and poor, notables and the others; we were
all people condemned to the same fate—still unknown."
Their fate had no define answer or secured future. Unknown. This is a perfect example.
As a real world answer, you could look at many situations. Some as simple as reading the ingredients on a food item, or maybe wondering if your family member will make it out of the hospital alive. Like, lets start with the food item. You may have an allergy to milk, and at the bottom of the package, in italicized fine print, you see 'may contain milk'. You cannot know if it has traces. It is indefinite, so you choose not to eat the food.
What does it mean to believe?
To believe isn't the polar opposite of knowing, though you might think that. To 'believe' something, would be to assume it true. That your insight is the best, even if you are not fully sure or secure. This can help people get through the toughest of situations, providing a hope. Regardless of if it is verifiable or not. For example:
"This kind of talk that nobody believed helped pass the time.
The few days we spent here went by pleasantly enough, in relative calm."
Nobody had faith in it, and weren't musing over the idea of this 'talk'. They didn't believe, or, in simpler words, they didn't see evidence in it, so they weren't going to give it any form of hope. Real world examples could be of religion or believing in your argument in a debate. Maybe your word isn't 100% certain. But, you think its true and positive, with little to no doubt.
What does it mean to be mad?
Being mad, also referred to as being crazy, is usually that you wholeheartedly believe in something that isn't true, that isn't 'known', to the point where it becomes a part of you. As eli writes:
"It was as though madness had infected all of us. We gave
up. A few young men forced her to sit down, then bound and
gagged her"
her wholehearted believe in the flames, the fire, even though it was false, seemingly spread through all of them. Believe in something of false origin.
A real life example: a schizophrenia patient believing in hallucinations. false, but they dont know that.
In ending:
Knowing, is to be certain in a verifiable truth.
believing is to think that a fact is truth, despite the absence of being verifiable.
to go mad, is to believe in something that you are oblivious to it being false.
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Post by Billy W on Feb 4, 2014 14:35:22 GMT
To know is to have proof that something is real.
To believe is to have no proof but you think that it is true.
To be mad is to believe that things that are almost unreal are true.
Moshie knew that Jews were being killed. Nobody believed him but he knew that it was true. Also in the real world people may know something to give them an advantage.
When the Jews got the gold star, They believed that it was a good thing. This was wrong because it would single out all of them and they would all go to the concentration camps. It is not bad to believe. If anyone in the Holocaust did not believe that one day they would get out, they would all go mad. Everyone thought that Mrs. Schancher was going mad. This was not true because she knew somehow that Auschwitz was real. People in the real world sometimes go mad because of a hard time in their life or because they lost something important.
Know quote "Jews, listen to me! That's all I ask of you. No money. No pity. Just listen to me!" He was trying to share what he knows
Believe quote "The yellow star? So what? It's not lethal..." This is what they thought. They were wrong.
Mad quotes "Look! Look at this fire! This terrible fire! Have mercy on me!" "She is mad, poor woman..." They all thought that she was going crazy but she really was just scared.
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Post by Stephanie B on Feb 4, 2014 14:36:21 GMT
When your going through a traumatizing time most people would be so scared that they go into a shock, where they are so scared they don't know what to think and don't know what to say do or how to act. Some people go cray, like the woman in the book. When they were at the camps they would do what the nazi tell them do do because they knew what was going to happen and i think the thought of dying because of your religion and dying in a place like Aschuwitz really scared people. People often went crazy because of the lack of food.
To believe something like that to people is crazy, which makes it hard to believe. People don't think something that bad will happen to them. People often think that's too good to be true or in this case to horrible to be true. You cant make someone believe something, its your choice to believe whether its true or not. For me to believe something ther would have to evidence and it would have to be all over the news with warnings that something. People had warning to leave and people could have chosen to believe that. When Moshie was telling Elie to leave and he was telling him all of theses horrible things were going to happen and they are planning to wipe out the Jewish religion... he didn't believe it, he thought he was crazy. Moshies appearance wasn't very believeable either. When your wanting to believe someone they have to not only look approachable but trustworthy and have evidence with what there are saying. Most people didn't believe because they haven't seen the camps but when they started to seperate the jews they were given hints that it was happening and that its real. Like with hurricane sandy.. they were given warning about the storm and they were given warnings to leave the area. People chose to believe what they want to believe. Thats how it will be forever people will be given a topic in life and they will chose to believe what they want no matte how bad the subject is.
To know that something is going to happen and not have people believe you is hard. When Moshie was telling Elie that all of these horrible things are going to happen and he didnt believe him. Moshie knew what was going to happen because he had lived through it, he had seen everything were they were going to be taken, what they would make them do, where they would stay. He knew it all.. but he had to evidence to show that it was going to happen accept for his words, his madness to it all and his actions. Like with weather reports people are warned and the weather reporter knows what will happen, what will it affect and where this storm will go... but people can chose to believe how bad a storm will be, and if they will be okay. Some people will think i need to get out of here to be safe even if the storm isn't that bad. Knowing means you have facts to show the truth, like with a hurricane moving towards the U.S we can see on t.v which way its going and the intensity it has. Then we would know the facts and the truth about the storm.
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Post by Analise M. on Feb 4, 2014 14:36:37 GMT
What does it mean to know?
"how old are you?"
"Fifteen"
"No you're eighteen"
"But, I'm fifteen"
"Fool, listen to what I say"
This was a conversation between Elie and a man who had been living the the Aushwitz camp for a while now. Luckily Elie (and his father) listened to the man and did as he said. When the guards came around Elie told them that he was eighteen and a farmer. The guards then put him (and his father) Into the line to work and not to die. The man KNEW what he was talking about and luckily Elie and his father listened to him. To know really means to really understand what is going on. The man KNEW what was going to happen to them if they didn't do what he had said. Elie and his father didn't know what was going to happen to them, so thank goodness they ended up listening to the man, The man had just saved their lives.
What does it mean to believe?
"Yisgadal veyiskadash shmey raba"
"May his name be celebrated and sanctified"
Elie's father repeats the "prayer" to the Jewish Gods. He BELIEVES that the Jewish Gods will come and help him, his son, his family, and his friends, be strong enough to survive this and make it out alive. Honestly, at the moment, I don't think Elie believed he would get out alive. I think he hoped he would though. Elie says in the book that he is questioning his faith because if there really was a God then why isn't he helping them out of this situation? As for Elie's father, he BELIEVES that if he continues to pray he will stay strong long enough to survive. To believe really means to have a little bit of hope. For Elie and his family believing is having the hope to get out of Aushwitz survivors.
What does it mean to be "mad" (Crazy)
"Look at the fire, look at the flames...flames everywhere"
This is said my Mrs. Schachter. She is a woman who does not know where her family is, and is going crazy. She is hungry, tired, thirsty, and doubtful that she will ever see her family again. Unfortunately she begins to hallucinate and begins to see a fire. She won't stop screaming no matter what. It comes to the point where grown men have to strike her in order to keep her quiet. At first the people with her feel bad for her saying she is a "poor woman" but after a wile they realize that she has gone MAD. To go mad means that you have gone crazy. It means that you are completely out of it and cannot handle yourself even more. It is almost as if you are in a simulation, you just aren't yourself and cannot control yourself anymore.
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