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Post by Daniel B on Feb 4, 2014 0:15:19 GMT
To know means that you understand teh facts of the situtation, but you may not acknowledge or have faith in these facts/knowledge. This is when someone is in denial; they understand the situation, but can't accept the reality for what it is. Quote: "So many events had taken place in just a few hours that I had completeley lost all track of time...Surley it was a dream." Here, Elie knows that the time since leaving the ghetto and arriving at the concentration camp has been incredibly short, but he can't even believe that he is in the concentration camp, even though that is the reality around him. Real World Example: In the Real World, an example of this denial is in the 5-Stages of Grief, which ususally applies to death. During the 5-stages of Grief, people go through stages such as anger, bargaining, denial, depression, and eventually acceptance. During the stages before acceptance, the person going through the grief is essentially in denial about the thing they are grieving for. To believe something is to completley accept or understand it, even if there is no factual proof that it exsists. This can go hand in hand with knowing, as you may *know* that one thing does not exsist, but you still *believe* that it does. Quote: "Freed from the barbers' clutches, we began to wander about the crowd, finding friends, acquaintences. Every encounter filled us with joy-yes, joy: Thank God! You are still alive!" Here we can see that Elie and the people around him still have hope; they still believe that in the end thing will be ok, or that there is still hope, when by many definitions there is none. Around them, the reality tells them there is no hope, and yet they still believe that there is. Real World Example: In the real world, the best example of this is religion. In religion, one will believe that something is true; whether it be a God or Gods, a single belief or rule, and even though there may not be any factual evidence to support these beliefs or to disporve them, the followers of these beliefs still hold them to be true. In essence, they believe regardless of what the reality may or may not be, and make their To be mad or crazy can be thought of in two ways: either a form of belief beyond just believing, or simply a mental illness. In terms of belief beyond belief, this is because someone who is crazy can take what the belief, while totally disregarding reality, and transforming what they percieve in reality into what they belive. In terms of a mental illness, this takes the form of an illness such as Schizophrenia, in which reality becomes distorted for someone with it. Quote: "'Fire! I see a fire!'...'It;s nothing, Mother! There's nothing there...'" Here, we see that the Madame truly and firmly believes, and probably percieves, that there is a fire of some sort, regardless of what reality or anyone else says. Real World Example: Schizophrenia. Schizophrenia is a mental disorder in which it is hard or impossible at times to tell between what is real and not real; this is due to very powerful hallucinations. This is a good example of what being "Crazy" or "Mad" can be; even if the person is a genius, if they have a mental disorder such as this, they can't even tell what the actual facts are, and so their "world" is shaped by their hallucinations *and* reality at once.Noah, I think that madness depends on your perspective. for example, if you had an idea for say, a vacuum cleaner that was completely revolutionary, I might think that your idea is crazy and that it would never work. However, you might know for a fact that it will work and you might make it work. Also, people who said the world was round were once known as insane, but it turned out they were right. |
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Post by Daniel B on Feb 4, 2014 0:20:54 GMT
To know means that you understand teh facts of the situtation, but you may not acknowledge or have faith in these facts/knowledge. This is when someone is in denial; they understand the situation, but can't accept the reality for what it is. Quote: "So many events had taken place in just a few hours that I had completeley lost all track of time...Surley it was a dream." Here, Elie knows that the time since leaving the ghetto and arriving at the concentration camp has been incredibly short, but he can't even believe that he is in the concentration camp, even though that is the reality around him. Real World Example: In the Real World, an example of this denial is in the 5-Stages of Grief, which ususally applies to death. During the 5-stages of Grief, people go through stages such as anger, bargaining, denial, depression, and eventually acceptance. During the stages before acceptance, the person going through the grief is essentially in denial about the thing they are grieving for. To believe something is to completley accept or understand it, even if there is no factual proof that it exsists. This can go hand in hand with knowing, as you may *know* that one thing does not exsist, but you still *believe* that it does. Quote: "Freed from the barbers' clutches, we began to wander about the crowd, finding friends, acquaintences. Every encounter filled us with joy-yes, joy: Thank God! You are still alive!" Here we can see that Elie and the people around him still have hope; they still believe that in the end thing will be ok, or that there is still hope, when by many definitions there is none. Around them, the reality tells them there is no hope, and yet they still believe that there is. Real World Example: In the real world, the best example of this is religion. In religion, one will believe that something is true; whether it be a God or Gods, a single belief or rule, and even though there may not be any factual evidence to support these beliefs or to disporve them, the followers of these beliefs still hold them to be true. In essence, they believe regardless of what the reality may or may not be, and make their To be mad or crazy can be thought of in two ways: either a form of belief beyond just believing, or simply a mental illness. In terms of belief beyond belief, this is because someone who is crazy can take what the belief, while totally disregarding reality, and transforming what they percieve in reality into what they belive. In terms of a mental illness, this takes the form of an illness such as Schizophrenia, in which reality becomes distorted for someone with it. Quote: "'Fire! I see a fire!'...'It;s nothing, Mother! There's nothing there...'" Here, we see that the Madame truly and firmly believes, and probably percieves, that there is a fire of some sort, regardless of what reality or anyone else says. Real World Example: Schizophrenia. Schizophrenia is a mental disorder in which it is hard or impossible at times to tell between what is real and not real; this is due to very powerful hallucinations. This is a good example of what being "Crazy" or "Mad" can be; even if the person is a genius, if they have a mental disorder such as this, they can't even tell what the actual facts are, and so their "world" is shaped by their hallucinations *and* reality at once.Noah, I think that madness depends on your perspective. for example, if you had an idea for say, a vacuum cleaner that was completely revolutionary, I might think that your idea is crazy and that it would never work. However, you might know for a fact that it will work and you might make it work. Also, people who said the world was round were once known as insane, but it turned out they were right. |
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Post by Daniel B on Feb 4, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
Knowing is the convincing of what one does or says. It is not relying on the fact it is the pure knowledge that something is true. It is supported by history and proven to be accurate. To know something, it is proven by thought and a realistic belief is behind it. An example in Night of "knowing" is the history behind it all. It has been proven through many sources and other's experiences. What has happened it true and has been supported very much. Believing is the inspiration to know that something is true. This is not proven, it is something you are willing to accept, you choose if this is true or not (opinion) In the book Night Eliezer and the others had moments in which they had felt safe for the time being and relied on hope that would keep everything under control. They had believed that they would stay in one barrack for a while and be able to process all that has happened so quickly. But it was never as it seemed, everything changed so rapidly and it was not what they expected. Now Eliezer finds it hard to trust anyone. To be mad or crazy is derived from a bad memory or abuse. When someone has gone mad, it may be dwelled from an incident that has caused one to go mentally insane or delusional. They are physically and mentally incapable to accept reality- which may lead to harming an other person. Madame S. would be a fair example of this trait, she is not permanently insane, by losing her loved ones she has targeted something else to keep her mind off of the other distractions. She says "Jews, fire! Fire! There's a fire" Her purpose is not only to warn them, but she has made it up in her head. She startled the ones around her as if her infectious pain was contagious. Chloe, I think that you have very good points, but insanity can be triggered by more than bad memories or abuse. Many people with mental disorders such as schizophrenia that we label as insane have not suffered any abuse but merely have a problem in their brain that causes hallucinations and the like. Also, could it be that insanity is something that is invented by society to describe someone who doesn't think the same as the rest of us? To the people that are suffering from the mental disorders, the voices they hear and the things they see are as real to them as you or me to each other. If there was no one else around to tell them that they are hearing things no one else is, how would they know? it is part of their reality, for we know what is real through our senses and experiences, so if they are hearing voices only they can hear, does it make them any less real? |
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Post by Vaishnavi S on Feb 4, 2014 0:41:58 GMT
Knowing: When you have the evidence and the actual facts that the situation definitely can or can not happen.
Example: You KNOW that you're going blink in a few seconds.
Quote: "Poor devils, you are going to the crematorium" pg. 32
He knew about the crematorium, he was a witness and had seen it. This shows that he had actual facts to go upon, and so he knows about the crematorium.
Real World Example: People know that the Earth and our Solar System rotates around the sun because there has been actual research done about it, people know about it and are taught so from a young age. They also have facts to support it and so it's a solid knowledge.
Belief: When you feel that something is going to happen, or that something is not going to happen
Example: You believe that Santa is real.
Quote: "Confidence soared. Suddenly we felt free." pg. 27
They believed that it was a better place even after all of the hardships they had been through.
Real World Example: Some people believe in different religions from others. Although they don't necessarily have solid, undeniable facts to support this belief, they do anyway. They don't know if this "God" or "Gods" actually exist, but the continue to hold their beliefs and express them outwardly.
Madness: You believe something so strongly with inadequate facts or no facts at all.
Example: You believe that there is a little sun growing inside the Earth and that it will explode in two days. Watch out.
Quote: "Mrs.Schacter had lost her mind." ... "Fire! I see a fire! I see a fire!" pg. 24
She went crazy, she believed it so strongly without facts that she went mad.
Real World Example: 5% of the world's population believes that the elite of society (celebrities, political leaders, etc.) are actually a race of reptilian aliens who must drink large quantities of human blood to keep their human form. This is crazy because these conspiracy theorists do not have adequate facts (if any) to support this claim, but they believe it so strongly that they go mad.
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Post by N. Fortin on Feb 4, 2014 0:47:05 GMT
To Know: You know something when you are absolutely sure of something, you will have evidence of why it is what it is and what makes it true. The quote from the book to represent this is "You will be burned! Burned to a cinder! Turned into ashes!" from page thirty one this represents knowing because the person knows for a fact with evidence that these people are going to be killed soon or a later, he has smelled the burning flesh and has heard the rumors that are true. A real world example of knowing is that there was a terrorist attack on the world trade center people knew that it happened from first hand accounts and later on found out it was a terrorist attack because of true evidence.
To Believe: When you believe in something you have enough evidence for it to make sense but not enough for it to be true. An example from the book is "Who knows, they may be sending us away for our own good." From page twenty one.These people believed that they were going to be okay from the evidence of now called propaganda, but they had no idea what was really going to happen. A real life example of believing is people believing in higher beings, there is some evidence that they may be true, but there is no definite answer.
To Be Mad: When you are mad, the only reasonable answer is what you give yourself. Nobody believes you because there isn't evidence, you may not be mentally challenged but you might be crazy. A quote of madness is "Jews, look! Look at the fire! Look at the flames!" From page 28. That is believed to be madness because there is not evidence what so ever, that there is actually a fire. A real life example is people within a crime investigation will give completely different explanations that have no evidence what so ever and don't make sense, such as saying that one person will kill someone cause they had a vision or something crazy like that.
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Post by Katy J on Feb 4, 2014 1:16:24 GMT
Knowing is when you have seen or done something that you know is real and it maybe something you have already seen or done in your past and you will know the outcome or maybe if someone is going through the same situation that you have already been through that you could tell them you know what will happen if they continue on or stop. An example from the book is when Moishe the Beadle knows what is going on in the concentration camps and with that knowledge he wants to warn his town about what will happen to them if they do not act before the Nazi's take them to the camp. A quote from the book Night was of what Moishe had experienced and of his knowing of what has been happing in the concentration camps, "They were forced to dig huge trenches. When they had finished their work, the men from the Gestapo began theirs. Without passion or haste, they shot their prisoners, who were forced to approach the trench one by one and offer their necks."
Belief is when you have a strong feeling and you think that it must be true. An example would be pretty much all types of religions... each person who believes in a certain religion they believe in a god, gods, or maybe someone may trust a leader and they have a belief that they were sent here on this earth to help us live and help us in times of trouble and need and lead them through their countries troubles. Although in the book Night, at the time, the people believed in optimism as stated, "The news spread through Sighet like wildfire. Soon that was all people talked about. But not for long. Optimism soon revived: The Germans will not come this far. They will stay in Budapest. For strategic reasons, for political reasons...".
Madness is when you go mentally crazy and you may think things are real and try to convince sane people that they are, but then really it is all just in your head and an example of that would be Mrs. Schachter. In the book she had gone mad and was always imagining a fire outside of the cart she was in and it was probably because of what has been happening to her and her family since she was separated from her husband and two older sons while she was left with her youngest son who had to deal with her madness, sadly. She would keep screaming until finally someone had to punch her to make her shut up but even after that she would always imagine a fire and probably did until she died. A quote about Mrs. Shachter's madness is, "Fire! I see a fire! I see a fire! There was a moment of panic. Who had screamed? it was Mrs. Shacheter. She was howling, pointing out the window, and some pressed against the bars to see but they hadn't seen anything." |
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Post by Colson Z on Feb 4, 2014 3:54:21 GMT
Knowing is having clear facts to back up what is perceived to be true, and showing that it is infact true. For example, I know that drinking dirty water can make you sick, becuase there is research, studies and examples that prove it. In the book, it says "The Germans were already in our town...." Elie knows that the Germans are occupying his town, becuase he sees it, and other people see it. There are clear facts that say, "The Germans are here"
Believing is thinking something, but other people may think something other, and you might not have clear facts to back up your opinion. An example today would be politics and presidential elections. The candidates will try to make you believe that each is better than the other, but other people might think something different that you, and there is seldom clear facts that state the clear choice. An example from the book would be when the townspeople don't believe Moishe's story. "But people not only refused to believe his tales, they refused to listen." In this example, the townspeople lack clear facts that would indicate he is right, and so there is no reason to believe that his unlikely story was actually true.
Madness is when you believe something when all of the facts clearly say otherwise, and a loss of cognitive ability. An example would be a hallucination (in a sense, short term madness) when you see something that clearly isn't there, and all other witnesses and facts say that you are incorrect. An example from the book would be Madame Shächter, "Mrs Shäcter had lost her mind.....Look! Look at this fire! This terrible fire! Have mercy on me!" In this example, she has clearly lost her mind as she is speaking of something when all the other witnesses would say otherwise and all of the facts "...the darkness of the night" point to a different conclusion.
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Post by Colson Z on Feb 4, 2014 11:46:29 GMT
Vaishnavi- When the man spoke of them going to the crematorium, he knew it existed, but did he really know that they were going to go there? Is it possible that he was just trying to be cruel like some of the other inmates? Knowing: When you have the evidence and the actual facts that the situation definitely can or can not happen. Example: You KNOW that you're going blink in a few seconds. Quote: "Poor devils, you are going to the crematorium" pg. 32 He knew about the crematorium, he was a witness and had seen it. This shows that he had actual facts to go upon, and so he knows about the crematorium. Real World Example: People know that the Earth and our Solar System rotates around the sun because there has been actual research done about it, people know about it and are taught so from a young age. They also have facts to support it and so it's a solid knowledge. Belief: When you feel that something is going to happen, or that something is not going to happen Example: You believe that Santa is real. Quote: "Confidence soared. Suddenly we felt free." pg. 27 They believed that it was a better place even after all of the hardships they had been through. Real World Example: Some people believe in different religions from others. Although they don't necessarily have solid, undeniable facts to support this belief, they do anyway. They don't know if this "God" or "Gods" actually exist, but the continue to hold their beliefs and express them outwardly. Madness: You believe something so strongly with inadequate facts or no facts at all. Example: You believe that there is a little sun growing inside the Earth and that it will explode in two days. Watch out. Quote: "Mrs.Schacter had lost her mind." ... "Fire! I see a fire! I see a fire!" pg. 24 She went crazy, she believed it so strongly without facts that she went mad. Real World Example: 5% of the world's population believes that the elite of society (celebrities, political leaders, etc.) are actually a race of reptilian aliens who must drink large quantities of human blood to keep their human form. This is crazy because these conspiracy theorists do not have adequate facts (if any) to support this claim, but they believe it so strongly that they go mad. |
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Post by Nina M. on Feb 4, 2014 14:20:18 GMT
Knowing means that you have information that is true and real. In order to know you need proof to explain everything. "Then for no apparent reason, he let out a terrible scream, a death rattle such as i had never heard before and, with an open mouth, thrust his head toward the still steaming liquid. We jumped at the sound of the shot." Pg 60. If you disobeyed orders you would be hurt or killed. For example, I know that my health paper is due today because it is typed on the rubric the teacher gave us.
Belief is where you think something is going to happen or has happened but you have no real proof. "Look! Look at this fire! This terrible fire! Have mercy on me!" Pg 25. When other people looked for the fire nobody saw it, but she still believed there was a fire. For example, I believe that some magic tricks could be real but I have no proof.
Madness is where something literally drives you crazy so you can't function properly. "She is hallucinating because she is thirsty, poor woman... That's why she speaks of flames devouring her..." pg 25 She believed so strongly in the flames that she kept screaming and trying to warn the other prisoners. She was right about the flames, but at the time nobody believed her because she was hysterical. For example, something that is mad (crazy) is when somebody believes that Africa is a country when they are 30 years old.
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Post by Garrett T. on Feb 4, 2014 14:21:19 GMT
Madness is known when someone seems crazy like when Moishe The Beadle had told the Jews of Sighet of the horrors that would unfold. He said to them "Without passion or haste, they shot their prisoners, who were forced to approach the trench one by one and offer their necks. Infants were tossed into the air and used for targets for machine guns." This is something that when we read it in class no one liked it at all. These are stories a madman would tell. Stories of horror and hate. Moishe later told Elie that "They think I'm mad." Belief is when you follow a certain reliion or a story you are told that makes you believe why you are here or what you will do. When the German vehicles entered Sighet the Jews were concerned but the Germans but out a good image for themselves, Elie states "I don't see the terrible and cruel red army." The Germans got the Jews to believe they were friendly then out of nowhere the Germans take control of the entire town within 3 days. Knowing is when you are full out 100% sure that you know what you believe happened and that it's true and you have sources. Knowing is when you are full out 100% sure that what you are saying is true and you have valuable and reliable sources. When Elie and his Dad got separated from his Mom and sisters Elies Dad told him not to worry about them anymore because he was sure they were killed either by work or by fire. After that he was told to remember the lady on the train who spoke of fire. I made the assumption she was proven mentally ill by the medical car and she was thrown into the fire.
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Post by Jake R on Feb 4, 2014 14:26:23 GMT
To know means that you belive or absoulutly know that somthing is true or right in a way. A example is " I will never forget that night" they know that this night happens because it was one of the most horrorific nights of their lives. A real world example is that I know that I was born on January 17 2000 because its a fact.
To beilieve is to trust an idea or someone without knowing there intentions or there plan for you. An example is the families beleif in there religion judism somthing that they stick to even though they would suffer the consequences for beliving in it. A real world example is that I belive in my religion and I still belive in it even though there isnt much factual proof.
To be "mad" or crazy is thinking or trusting that things are not belivible and being nieve the trhe truth. (didnt finish)
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Post by Garrett T. on Feb 4, 2014 14:26:37 GMT
Knowing means that you have information that is true and real. In order to know you need proof to explain everything. "Then for no apparent reason, he let out a terrible scream, a death rattle such as i had never heard before and, with an open mouth, thrust his head toward the still steaming liquid. We jumped at the sound of the shot." Pg 60. If you disobeyed orders you would be hurt or killed. For example, I know that my health paper is due today because it is typed on the rubric the teacher gave us. Belief is where you think something is going to happen or has happened but you have no real proof. "Look! Look at this fire! This terrible fire! Have mercy on me!" Pg 25. When other people looked for the fire nobody saw it, but she still believed there was a fire. For example, I believe that some magic tricks could be real but I have no proof. Madness is where something literally drives you crazy so you can't function properly. "She is hallucinating because she is thirsty, poor woman... That's why she speaks of flames devouring her..." pg 25 She believed so strongly in the flames that she kept screaming and trying to warn the other prisoners. She was right about the flames, but at the time nobody believed her because she was hysterical. For example, something that is mad (crazy) is when somebody believes that Africa is a country when they are 30 years old.
Garrett T. You make really good points here but I think maybe some of the real world examples aren't showing a strong meaning of such a topic like this. Distinguishing between Madness, Knowing, Belief in the days of the holocaust, especially in Auschwitz which is the worst camp to go to. |
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Post by Amanda F on Feb 4, 2014 14:27:30 GMT
What does it mean to know?
To truly know something is when you feel that there is nothing that could possibly prove the things you know to be wrong. I also think that after you know something for real it will change the way your point of view or life path. This is just like in real life when you witness a life changing event (like a graduation) it will perminately change you because you are able to have a new life path and experiences because of it, and those future experiences and memories validate that it happened. On page 29 in "Night" he says "The beloved objects we had carried with us from place to place were now left behind in the wagon, and finally our illusions." This means that when he got there, they finally realized that the concentration camps were real and they knew that nothing could disprove that, because they saw it with their own eyes, and were beginning to experience it for themselves.
What does it mean to believe?
To believe means that you could accept something to be true, but couldn't truly know that it is true until you see or experience it. A great example of this in the real world is when you see a magic trick performed. You believe that what you witnessed happened, but you don't actually know if it was real, or just an illusion. In the book this is shown on page 9 in "Night". It says "German troops had penetrated Hungarian territory with the governments permission. Finally people began to worry in earnest...Optimism soon revived: the Germans will not come this far" As you ca see they believed it was happening because they worried, but didn't truly believe it because they had too much optimism.
What does it mean to be mad (crazy)?
I think this means that when you are crazy, the majority of people do not accept you and your actions. I say this because there is a socially accepted "normal" but when you are not in that "normal" category, you are categorized as crazy or mad. In real life, this could be like if you have a mental illness and act psychotic, then because the majority of people aren't like you, then they see you as crazy or mad. In the book it displays this on page 24 in Night "Mrs. Schachter had lost her mind. On the first day of the journey she had begun to moan." This shows my definition of crazy because she wasn't acting like everyone else, and was perceived as crazy.
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Post by Samantha C on Feb 4, 2014 14:28:20 GMT
To know means to have knowledge of a specific subject. For example, you know that there is a pop quiz tomorrow in your class. But you are the only one since you over heard the math teacher talking about it with the other teachers in the break room. I can connect this to Night by on page 30 of Night, a inmate walked up to Elie and asked for his age. Elie replied back with "I am fifteen." When the inmate heard this, he frowned and told Elie: "No. Your eighteen." Now this slightly confused Elie. Why would that man want him to say a different age then he is now? Well that meant the inmate knew something that everyone else did not know. What he knew was practically life and death situation. When that was over, he then went up to one of the Nazi workers. He asked "What is your age?" And Elie replied back with "Eighteen". Now if he had said his actual age, he could have been sent to one of the gas chambers or even the crematorium.
To believe means to have a belief in a specific subject. For example, you believe that your school's sports team will win the game tonight. But another student may believe that they will lose. A connection from this from Night is that on page 26 from Night Is that when Mrs. Schacher had begun to lose her sanity and started to hallucinate. One of the men there grew furious that the woman had been having constant illusions. So he believed if they had hit her or pinned her down, she would stop for good. This cause all the men to gang up on her and hit her several times until she stopped. She did stop for the rest of the time until camp.
To be mad/insane/crazy Is when the victim of the madness can not tell reality and fantasy apart, meaning not knowing whats real and what is not. A example of this is that you have gotten news that your mother was murdered. You deny this, thinking it was some cruel joke by someone. You later realize it was not a joke and you can still not tell if the situation was true or not. I can connect with this from Night on multiple pages in fact! There were a lot of actions made by the characters that they could not tell the cruel reality from the fantasy. One example is pages 24-26 when Mrs. Schacher had in fact started to lose it. When that happened, she first shut herself out from everyone, then on the second day, she had a mix of sobs and uncontrollable laughter. Then the last time she started to hallucinate visions of fire. People at first were shocked, but soon shock was quickly replaced with anger. Another example of madness is on page 37, Elie was doubting the reality and was thinking it was a dream.
~Samantha Collins 2/4/14
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Post by Nina M on Feb 4, 2014 14:28:39 GMT
To Believe: When you believe in something you have enough evidence for it to make sense but not enough for it to be true. An example from the book is "Who knows, they may be sending us away for our own good." From page twenty one.These people believed that they were going to be okay from the evidence of now called propaganda, but they had no idea what was really going to happen. A real life example of believing is people believing in higher beings, there is some evidence that they may be true, but there is no definite answer.
I agree with what she said because at first the Jews believed that they were going to be okay and nothing crazy was going to happen. They thought that they might even be safer there. They had no definite answer and no proof, just what the people were saying. The Germans were lying and just wanted to get them out of the way. |
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