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Post by Mikayla W on Feb 5, 2014 0:52:03 GMT
Being mad is where you are in a state of reality, where normal thoughts and interactions are prevented. a sign of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecti ng a diffrent result, this is because you dont understand the interactions between things while insane. In the book mrs schachter is going insaine in the book, by screaming fire fire, over and over, I think she is trying, like moshie to warn the jews, but they wont listen so she is doing it over and over, I think she was a witness, like moshie, or belived his stories. Now, insanity is treatablle, but still affects many people, often after they come back from war. This shows that insanity is driven by fear and helplessness. I really like this definition of madness because my thoughts about madness were similar to this and i think you put it into words really well. It really is when your thoughts are prevented from being expressed kind of like you said. |
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Post by Emily W on Feb 5, 2014 1:12:44 GMT
Knowing is having facts and details and the experience like when Moshie the Beadle came and told everyone he knew what had happened. Believing is when you don't have the experience but you have heard of what is happening and you think it is true. Madness is when you have the experience and you know or if you believe something but it has caused you to go to great lengths but still know one belives you like when Mrs Schachter was screaming and no one was believing her.
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Post by Regan White B4 on Feb 5, 2014 1:32:47 GMT
What does it mean to know?
“Fifteen.”
“No. You’re eighteen.”
“But I’m not,” I said. “I’m fifteen.”
“Fool. Listen to what I say.”
To know means to have knowledge of or understand information/fact. For example with the quote from the book the veteran inmate knew what would happened if he told the SS his real age. I think that Mr. Wiesel and his father were rather lucky that someone told them what to do and how to act because they had no clue what was happening, up until a couple of hours ago they haven’t even heard of Auschwitz. A real life example of knowing something is that my B4 class is Language A with Mrs. Hoffman.
What does it mean to believe?
To believe is to have faith in someone or something. When you believe you don’t necessarily have to have facts to back you up because that what you want to think is true is just that what you think your opinion. In the real world an example of believing is my religion, faith, and beliefs in God and Jesus. In the book his dad sticks to his belief in God and still believes that He will help them out of it all.
“May His name be celebrated and sanctified…” whispered my father pg 33
What does it mean to be mad?
To be mad means that you are mentally insane, disturbed, or demented. I think when people go from being perfectly normal to going mad something in drastic most likely accrued. The book gives a good example with Mrs.S she lost her husband and other children even though she stills has one with her, she can no longer mentally or emotionally take it all so she is starting to turn herself mad thinking about it all. I would say that a real world example of this is schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. These are prime examples because with both mental illness people tend to hallucinations and have extreme mood swings at any given time.
“Look! Look at this fire! This terrible fire! Have mercy on me!”pg 25
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Post by Brandon A. on Feb 5, 2014 1:54:11 GMT
To know means that what you think is true and can be proven with hard evidence. An example of knowing something is saying you know your age. It can be proven by looking at your birth certificate and comparing it to the date of today. An example from the book would be that the people in the concentration camps knew that were being treated badly because they were treated well before then. They also know this because they are in significantly worse health conditions than they were before they got there.
To believe something is to think something is true but can not be proven in any way. In real life people like to believe that they are the person in the world and that they have no flaws. In no way can this be proven and is probably not true based on the odds. People also like to believe things that bring them hope or joy to provide comfort for harsh times. This happens in the book when they are at the concentration camps. The people believed that there was a way out and that they would survive until the war was over. However this is not to know it because their is no way of telling for sure.
To be mad or crazy is to have loss of all control. This will usually occur when you have lost all hope and are left with nothing to hang onto when you are in a bad situation. This happens in the book when they are going to the concentration camp. One person in cart thought that they were seeing fire and began to scream at the sight and yell for help. Nobody believed her and just got annoyed with her because they didn't see any fire anywhere and began to go on the assumption that she had gone mad because of all that had happened to her before this moment. ""Jews, listen to me," she cried. "I see fire! I see flames, huge flames!"" (25 Wiesel) When someone becomes "mad" or "crazy" in real life, it may happen in catastrophic events such as the 9/11 plane crashes and events such as these. Events like these will cause people to lose sense and become mad.
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Post by Carina C on Feb 5, 2014 1:54:59 GMT
The difference between knowing, madness & belief is whether or not you have facts to back things up. Knowing is to feel some sense of right, and to have facts/inferences to back it up. You are confident about this statement. Knowing is also having reasons behind what you think. In the book Night, by Elie Wiesel is confronted by the SS man on how old he is & they have this argument on how old he really is. " I am fifteen." said Elie, "No You're eighteen." said the SS man "But I'm not, I'm fifteen." "Fool. Listen to what I say." Elie could have gotten the feeling of knowing to trust him. The reader then figures out that they burned children and babies, so 15 could have been considered child, and he could have gotten burned. Another example is to know what the right answer is in math by having evidence, your formula (s) followed by your work. If you believe in something or someone that everyone else thinks is madness, they can find ways to prove you wrong. Believing is not necessarily right is others views. It is an opinion that you think/suppose is correct. There is no right wrong in a belief. A religion is a big real world example This is because there are many religions that people believe is the ultimate one, like Hitler. A quote from the book about believing would be "Confidence soared. Suddenly we felt free of the previous nights' terror. We gave thanks to God". They were believing that they had gotten out of the trouble and been "free" from terror. We also know that they believe in the jewish religion because the holocaust was about destroying a big chunk of the jewish community. To be mad you basically believe in things that are proved to be wrong and untrue. When you go mad, it doesn't necessarily mean you are crazy, it can mean whats going on in your life is crazy. For example, in the book Mrs. Schächters experience has made her go mad. Being separated from the rest of her family, not knowing what is going to happen to them or to her and her son. "The fire, over there!" shows that she can't take what is going on her life, and the other people surrounding her think she is crazy, but don't get why or the story behind it. They do know that there is no fire. A real world example of being mad is when people start hallucinating and stare to hear voices or start to think things are there but really there is nothing there. When you get your teeth pulled or get your wisdom teeth out, you most likely will get laughing gas and you will start to act really weird and start imagining things that aren't there or think things that are the opposite.
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Post by Lucy K. on Feb 5, 2014 1:55:56 GMT
Knowing:
"When they came back, they told us that they had learned, in exchange for a gold watch, that this was the final destination."
this quote shows knowledge because like in the definition there is awareness in few people.
- showing or suggesting that one has knowledge or awareness that is secret or known to only a few people
- I know that my dog is 16.
Believing:
"We had forgotten Mrs. Schachter's existence. Suddenly there was a terrible scream:..."
this quote shows belief because everyone has seen the truth that Mrs. Schachter has been telling.
- accept (something) as true; feel sure of the truth of
- I believe that Lila is my friend.
Madness:
"Look at the fire! Look at the flames! Flames Everywhere..."
this quote shows that Madem Schachter has gone mad or crazy.
- the state of being mentally ill
- My neighbors dog has gone mad.
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Post by Carina C on Feb 5, 2014 1:57:44 GMT
Knowing something means that you know for a fact it is true or to be aware of it. When Moishe the Beadle is telling the story of being taken away and saying "infants were tossed in the air and used as targets for machine guns" he knows that the story is true, only no one will believe him. A real world example of knowing something is knowing that for a fact Santa does not exist. Believing something is hoping or thinking that you know something and truly thinking that it is real. For example, when talking about Elie's mother he says "we pretended, for what if one of us still did believe." This means he does not know if they are alive but believes or hopes that they are. A real world example is thinking that Santa is real and thinking that you know he exists. Madness is thinking or believing something is true to such an extent you go crazy about something that you truly believe is real even though everyone knows it not. When talking about Mrs. Schachter they say "make that madwoman shut up." They think she is crazy because she believes a fire is there even though it is not yet visible to anyone. A real world example would be believing Santa is real well into your adult life and believing or hoping it is true, causing you to be crazy about someting that doesn't exist. good explanations and examples to back your answer up. |
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Post by Maya R on Feb 5, 2014 2:00:17 GMT
Knowing- having certainty of a fact
"...suitcases, briefcases, bags, knives, dishes, banknotes, papers, faded portraits...they had ceased to matter." (Pg 85 Electronically)
-This quote is from Night. Ellie is saying that all the things that were once objects used daily had no use where they were going. He knew this simply by the fact the children were begging for water, a basic human need.
"The earth is a sphere."
-This is an example of a fact that is certain. After many false beliefs and exploration, we can be sure that the Earth is shaped as a sphere.
Belief- having faith that a fact is true
"Families would not be separated. Only the young would work in the factories. The old and the sick would find work in the fields. Confidence soared. Suddenly we felt free of the previous night's terror." (Page 109 Electronically)
- This quote is from night. This quote takes place when the cattle car reaches the final destination and the soldiers tell them this. The Jews believed soon everything would be okay but this wasn't true. The would be denied basic needs just like they were treated in the cattle cars, even killed.
"Christianity (Religion)"
- This is a belief. There is said to be some proof of Jesus existing, but for the most the part believing in God is a pure act of faith.
Madness- believing something is true past a point of sanity or believing in something that makes no sense.
"Look at the fire! Look at the flames! Over there!" (Page 110 Electronically)
-This quote is from Night. This also is a quote from when the Jews were riding in the cattle cars. This quote could be argued to not be madness because in the end she was right but it was the way she went about notifying the others that made this belief pass the line of sanity.
"The world will end tomorrow."
-There have been many suspicions of the world ending on a certain day or when the Mayan calendar ended. It didn't, which made this accusation seem some sort of insane or mad.
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Post by Carina C on Feb 5, 2014 2:01:05 GMT
Know- When you know something it means you have proof or evidence of something. A quote for knowing something: "If someone managed to escape they would be shot." They knew this because they had proof from other people. The Germans said so themselves... that if the Jews tried to escape they would die.A real life example would be if you learned how to do subtraction in math class. You would KNOW that you were doing subtraction the right way because you had proof from your teacher. Believe- When you believe something it means you think it's right, and it hasn't been proven to be wrong but there is no evidence for it to be right. A quote for believing something: "Auschwitz. Nobody had ever heard that name before." This is believing something because nobody knew anything about it. So the Jews had to believe what they had heard about Auschwitz from other people. A real life example would be if your friend started a rumor about somebody but they had no proof. But they didn't have any proof that the rumor wasn't true either. So you would just believe what they said. Mad- When you are mad you just HAVE to be right that you have gone crazy about whatever you are trying to prove. Then people don't wnat to believe you because you are so crazy. A quote for being crazy/mad: "God alone could answer you. For heaven's sake, get up... He hah no idea what I was talking about. He probably thought I had lost my mind." Elie was screaming about how they were all going to get expelled and even though he was right, the people couldn't believe him because the way he was screaming and talking made him sound so crazy. In real life being mad would be if you thought you saw a person in your closet. And you kept screaming to your parents that there was someone there but they couldn't see anyone. You would be considered mad because you were crazy about something that you thought was true. nice way to back up your answer and good examples! |
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Post by Amanda W. on Feb 5, 2014 2:03:33 GMT
I think when someone knows something they physically experienced it or saw it. They know for a fact it's true, also they may have had verification that it was true from another source. In the book on pg.7 it says "Day after day,night after night, he went from one Jewish house to the next...". Moishe knows for a fact that the story he tells is true even if others don't think it is true because he physically experienced it. Another example would be if you know that bats are nocturnal, you would know this is you saw this in person, if you saw a bat sleeping in the day and being active at night, or you looked it up on the internet and there are many sources verifying it to be true. So you know that a bat is nocturnal, there is no doubt that it is not.
If someone believes something then they are believing it off what they think or based off what they have heard, but they haven't seen or experienced it. If someone doesn't believe it, they don't have proof that what they don't believe is untrue, but they don't think it is true. For example I believe that once I die I will go to heaven, because I am a Christian. I haven't experienced dieing and going to heaven so I can't know that it will happen, however I strongly believe it will. In "Night" on pg.7 once again, moishe goes around telling his story but no one believes him. They don't know because they haven't experienced what he was saying in person and what he says seems unrealistic.
For a person to be mad they talk about stuff that is defiently unreal but they think it is, however there is defiently no way what they are saying could possibly be true. If someone is mad they are probably insane and crazy. For example in the book on pg.24, in the cattle car, Mrs. Schachter starts shouting that there is a fire outside. When everyone looks out the window, there is defiently no fire. So in this case people would call her mad, like on pg.25 someone says "She is mad, poor woman...". In real life someone that could be mad might be saying things with a wierd tone and the words don't make sense. They might seem like they aren't really in the room.
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Post by Amanda W. on Feb 5, 2014 2:11:29 GMT
what does it mean to know?To 'know', in its true form, is to be definite. If you 'know' something, in your mind, it is certain and true. Actually 'knowing' something, means it is true information. You can believe you know something, when in reality, you don't at all. You can back it up with proof or experiences. In the beginning of the test, an early quote, Ellie said "I set to paper an experience in which nothing made any sense?
In retrospect I must confess that I do not know, or no longer
know, what I wanted to achieve with my words."Though he wanted so badly to write this text, to convey his message, he didn't know why. He had no certain motive behind it, or a clear answer. And, that, is what 'knowing; is, in simplistic words. It is to be clear, to know indefinitely. Also: "There no longer was any distinction between rich and poor, notables and the others; we were all people condemned to the same fate—still unknown."Their fate had no define answer or secured future. Unknown. This is a perfect example.As a real world answer, you could look at many situations. Some as simple as reading the ingredients on a food item, or maybe wondering if your family member will make it out of the hospital alive. Like, lets start with the food item. You may have an allergy to milk, and at the bottom of the package, in italicized fine print, you see 'may contain milk'. You cannot know if it has traces. It is indefinite, so you choose not to eat the food. What does it mean to believe? To believe isn't the polar opposite of knowing, though you might think that. To 'believe' something, would be to assume it true. That your insight is the best, even if you are not fully sure or secure. This can help people get through the toughest of situations, providing a hope. Regardless of if it is verifiable or not. For example: "This kind of talk that nobody believed helped pass the time. The few days we spent here went by pleasantly enough, in relative calm."Nobody had faith in it, and weren't musing over the idea of this 'talk'. They didn't believe, or, in simpler words, they didn't see evidence in it, so they weren't going to give it any form of hope. Real world examples could be of religion or believing in your argument in a debate. Maybe your word isn't 100% certain. But, you think its true and positive, with little to no doubt. What does it mean to be mad?
Being mad, also referred to as being crazy, is usually that you wholeheartedly believe in something that isn't true, that isn't 'known', to the point where it becomes a part of you. As eli writes: "It was as though madness had infected all of us. We gave
up. A few young men forced her to sit down, then bound and
gagged her"her wholehearted believe in the flames, the fire, even though it was false, seemingly spread through all of them. Believe in something of false origin.A real life example: a schizophrenia patient believing in hallucinations. false, but they dont know that.In ending:
Knowing, is to be certain in a verifiable truth. believing is to think that a fact is truth, despite the absence of being verifiable. to go mad, is to believe in something that you are oblivious to it being false. I really like your definition of believing. I did not think about it that way and you put it into words really well.
We said similar things and agree with all your definitions. I really like your examples from the book, I like how it includes the actual words (know, believe,mad) in the examples. |
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Post by Regan White on Feb 5, 2014 2:14:18 GMT
I really like your quote from the book it shows that over time Elie started to understand and know how things worked at the camp. I also like how you made the connection with terrorists and the US how now that we have knowledge of what they can do we can then prepare to stop them. To know something is to truly understand something and to know what you are talking about in that subject. that subject or piece of information. In the book Elie says "We still had a few provisions left. But we never ate enough to satisfy our hunger. To save was our rule; To save up for tomorrow. Tomorrow might be worse." In this part of he book they realize and they KNOW how bad things are and they KNOW how bad things can be and how they are currently. They know that tomorrow they might not get food or that they could even die tomorrow. Today this compares to people that live in countries that are troubled by Al Qaeda, they know that any day they could be killed in the streets by a band of terrorists. They KNOW how bad these people can be, and what they have done in the past to know that anything is possible. To believe in something is to have even the slightest amount of hope or trust in something whether it is an idea or person. In the book Elie and his father have a conversation outside of Auschwitz "I'm not quite fifteen. No your eighteen. Bun i'm not, i'm fifteen. You fool listen to what i say." He believe this man and trusted him with his life when he went up to the officer that determined whether he was to live or to be burned alive in a a crematory. In situation like these we don't know whether to trust them or whether it is a planned for him to have you killed. Since he was there before them, both him and his father trusted him and they were both able to make it through to the concentrations camps that followed. To be truly mad i believe must involve even small amounts of psychosis in a person, but i also believe you can be madly lost in the idea of something and lose sight of everything else in the world. in the book there is a women on the train that has a mental breakdown whether is was from what sh had heard about where they were going or whether she was schizophrenic we will never know. She shouted things like "The fire! The furnace! Look over there!..." In the book Elie claimed to have been frightened by her her screams, but that is nothing compared to what happened to him next. |
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Post by Anika R on Feb 5, 2014 2:16:25 GMT
What Does It Mean to Know?
To know means that your thoughts are right and they are supported with evidence. In the book, Moishe the Beadle had come back to warn the town that the Nazis were torturing the Jews and killing them. Moishe saw this with his own eyes and had cared about others so he escaped to tell them. Quote from Book (page 7): "You don't understand," he said in despair. "You cannot understand. I was saved miraculously. I succeeded in coming back. Where did I get my strength? I wanted to return to Sighet to describe to you my death so that you might ready yourselves while there is still time. Life? I no longer care to live. I am alone. But I wanted to come back to warn you. Only no one is listening to me ..." Nobody believed him until it was too late. One real world example of knowing would be that most people know their names and their birthday. It can be proven with a birth certificate.
What Does It Mean to Believe?
To believe means that you trust someone or something to be right. An example from the book would be that the Jews had been listening to the London Radio. Book quote (page 7-8): "London radio, which we listened to every evening, announced encouraging news: the daily bombings of Germany and Stalingrad, the preparation of the second front. And so we, Jews of Sighet, waited for better days that surely were to come soon." That is what all their knowledge of the world came from. The London radio was basically feeding the Jews propaganda and potentially making the Jews believe that the Nazis were trying to make their lives better. I real world example would be believing a friend. The trust between two REAL friends is important. Sometimes you just have to believe your friend that what is happening is true or correct. Like if you need a copy of homework because you were absent a day in school, you would need to trust your friend to not give you the wrong thing.
What Does It Mean to Be Mad?
To be mad would be going crazy at every single aspect of the world in your life. You would just be extremely crazy. People would not trust you with secrets or information. People may think you are hallucinating or having a spasm or something. In the book, the lady (Mrs. Schacter) really thought there was a fire. Book quote: "She is mad, poor woman ... Someone had placed a damp rag on her forehead. But she nevertheless continued to scream: Fire! I see a fire!" In the end, yes there was a fire, but in the wagon car or train car everybody thought she was mad and had lost her mind because everything in er life had just turned upside down (she was separated with her husband). A real life example would be in an event like a huge tsunami or earthquake. People may go into temporary shock or madness because of everything that they may have been destroyed or lost in a split second (like their family members, house, friends, valuables, money, etc...)
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Post by Amanda W. on Feb 5, 2014 2:17:39 GMT
. To know means to have understanding of things or events that happened. To be fully knowledgeable you must know the facts and form your own opinions this is very valuable when you have a primary sources to back up what you believe and if you were there that especially helps because you were there to experience the event or thing.
pg 28. "We stared at the flames in the darkness. A wrenched stench floated in the air." this he experienced he realized and knew that Mrs. Schachter's was right about the fire and screaming it was real and right in front of him. A real life example is knowing what happened in the concentration camps by having people that survived to tell the tale, documentation, and me have some of the buildings left.
. To believe is to have confidence in the truth of your knowledge of something. An example is believing that Elie Weisel was actually in the concentration camps because he used descriptive detail and the facts match up to the time period. pg. 46 "On the way we saw some young German girls. The guards began to tease them. The girls giggled... They went on joking." I think maybe they didn't believe that the guards were doing anything wrong because they didn't show any negativity towards what the guard were doing. . To be crazy is to believe in something when all things point to not being possible. An example is to think that people would kill the Jews because of there religion because this was unheard of in the 20th century. Another example is to see dead people because they are dead so it doesn't really make sense to see them alive. "But people not only refused to believe his tales, they refused to listen. Some even insinuated that he only wanted their pity, that he was imagining things. Others flatly said that he had gone mad." this is because what Moishe was telling was unheard of. pg.7
I like your definitions and examples. You said that you know what happened in the concentration camps from people telling tales and documents. I get what your saying. But in my opinion that would be more like believing than knowing because you believe that the what people are saying is true, but you don't truly know if you didn't experience it. (: |
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Post by Lucy K. on Feb 5, 2014 2:20:54 GMT
Knowing: Knowing is to be aware of something true, that you have strong influences to sense it's true. I know that my birthday is July 28, because that is a true provable fact. "'Jews, look! Look at the fire! Look at the flames!' And as the train stopped, this time we saw flames rising from a tall chimney into a black sky." This quote from the book represents knowing because she says something that is definitely true, she makes a statement that can be proven with evidence. Believing: Believing means to think something that doesn't have evidence at the moment, or something that you think is real/true that can be questioned. I believe that my friends are loyal, this proves my definition because there is nothing I can do to get the exact truth but I am opinionated to think they are genuine. "'Mother is still a young woman,' my father once said. 'She must be in a labor camp. And Tzipora, she is a big girl now. She must too be in a camp...'" This represents my quote because they are opinionated to hope that this is true but they have no evidence or way of knowing whether it is fact or fiction. Madness: Madness means you are hallucinating; you cannot tell what is true or not because everything is out of sorts and hard to understand/grasp, and unbelievable. I think the movie Oblivion was madness, because the plot was often shocking and I was often unable the understand what was true or false. "In front of us, those flames. In the air, the smell of burning flesh." This quote from Night represented my definition of madness because it contains experiences that you would never, ever expect to be real, Elie often thought he was in a nightmare and he would awaken any minute, but all of these bizarre, unthinkable things were happening in reality and were still being questioned. Is madness always hallucinating? What if its going crazy? Do you think that the quote could also be believing because people are finally realizing that Mrs. Schachter was telling the truth. |
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