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Post by Meghan C. on Feb 4, 2014 22:36:21 GMT
Knowing something is like a fact. You can prove it with evidence you can let people see in some way. Quote: "We never saw him again. He had been given the news. The real news." (pg. 45) They know this is true because they saw it. I really like the quote you used to support your idea on the definition of knowing. It is accurate and helps explain and emphasis the point. |
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Post by Meghan C. on Feb 4, 2014 22:41:21 GMT
Knowing something means that you are 100% confident in it, and you may have evidence that it exists. You can say it and you know that you are right. For example, I know where I live, because I go there every day, and I have been doing that for like 10 years. In Night, Elie knows that the Germans are killing baby Jews, because he saw it with his own eyes, when you see something with your own eyes, you can be confident in it, even if other people don't believe you- you know it happened. Wow. I had never thought of knowing as needing confidence, but I believe you are right. To truly know something you have to be fully confident in what you know. It's a good thought, Alyssa. |
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Post by Mackenzie Wright on Feb 4, 2014 23:05:03 GMT
To know means to have knowledge of. To understand something new or old. to have information. In the book it quotes "why have you come here, tell me, why? You should have hanged yourselves rather than come here. didn't you know what was in store for you at Auschwitz ?" this man at the camp was wondering why they would even let the officers bring them here. The new Jews were not aware of what was happening. The Germans made it like this purposely. they did not want anyone outside the camp to know. their operation could have been shut down if this information would have fallen into the wrong hands, so this man was wondering. Why? in real life people have all kinds of a knowledge. or things that they know. this could be a simple math problem like 4-3=1. it could also be of what happened in the horrible time period we are reading about.
Belief is what you think. it could be based off of what you know, but like in this book, even people who heard about the torturous concentration camps, they did not want to believe that it was true. in the book it says, "the conditions were good, you would not be separated fro your family." The Jews wanted to believe this was true. they later found out it wasn't. in real life we believe things all the time. For example your religion. If you are Christian you believe in god and jesus. It could be as simple as believing what your mom told you you were having for dinner.
Madness is to go crazy. You have lost your state of mind. you are insane. In the book Mrs. Schaschers yeling while the jews were in the car is madness. there was no fire the first few times she creamed, "Fire! Jews look, Look at the flames!" she had been torn apart from her family and with shock of what was happening to the Jews she went insane. In real life we have mental hospitals for many people who do go crazy, one way or another.
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Post by Jacob R on Feb 4, 2014 23:06:03 GMT
knowing, madness, and belief all depend on each other. So if we believe that means we are mad? no, not necessarily.
You become mad after a certain extent, for example the lady on the train started screaming about flames because she had lost her family during the war. who wouldn't go mad if all of your family had just died? I know i would!
Knowing is when you have evidence or past memory of something. for example, i know what 2+2 is, it equals 4, i know that because I have learned about it in math. so the more we grow the more we know and the more we start to believe.
Also knowing is directly linked with belief. Almost ALL religions have to believe without knowing what is there. This is called FAITH. Faith is the aspect of believing in something even though there is no solid evidence. In the book, Elie doesn't believe in Him anymore because of what everything he has "allowed" to happen. this is a PEFECT example of why you need faith.
Sometimes life is going to give you curveballs and you don't think you can handle what is happening, this is sometimes what makes you go "mad." DON'T EVER say you can't do something or else you have already lost faith. Faith=Knowledge. We go through faith every second of our life, EVEN IN SCHOOL! In math, I wonder where all these rules actually came from, why they are here, and what they do. have you ever thought that the teachers may be teaching you something that is wrong? Or maybe math itself is not set up correctly? Or maybe the letters of the alphabet are not correct? Think about it… You put TONS of faith in to these subjects. You probably don't even know that you put faith in your teachers. take a second and imagine that everything you have been taught was wrong… what would you do? You probably wouldn't believe in anything else because you lost your whole life learning that "essential" stuff. Right?
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Post by jacob R on Feb 4, 2014 23:17:40 GMT
To know is to possess information that is without a doubt true. "We jumped at the sound of the shot" They know that a gun was fired. I know that my eyes are blue To believe is to support or put faith into something. "Long live liberty! My curse on Germany!' he believes that Germany is wicked and liberty is good. In real life I believe that there is a God. To be mad is to not make sense to others or to do something without a logical reason. "Only Idek, the Kapo, occasionally has fits of madness, and then you'd better stay out of the way." Idek randomly attacks people and he beats up Eliezers father. In real life, Al-Queda is crazy because they attack people just to spread terror. Wow. I never thought of that Ethan. I agree with the long live liberty. I overhead that part 4 times without even realizing the full depth of what it means. You really opened my eyes. #GREATNESS |
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Post by jacob R on Feb 4, 2014 23:21:36 GMT
Julia- I agree with what Julia said about madness when you hear about people that have gone crazy, they will always think they are right.I think that their could be some evidence for you to believe. There doesn't have to be no evidence for you to believe, for example there can be facts about global warming happening and facts about it not happening and you can go with what ever you believe. I think Haley said this- I don't think you have to have seen the evidence. You can just learn by hearing and reading about other people's knowledge to gain more. You don't really have to experience/see what happened to know about it. Haley, You don't need ANYTHING to believe in something, i could believe that the earth will explode tomorrow, i don't need anything to believe it. 12/21/12 we all believed we were going to die!! |
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Post by James J on Feb 4, 2014 23:47:41 GMT
Knowing, Believing, and mad or crazy are all different levels of understanding what is happening in that specific time. To know is to see something happen and to in counter it and to be there. "She received several blows to the head that could have been lethal" Elie Knows this because he was there and encountered it. a real life example is knowing that your baby brother was just born and you were there to encounter it. Someone who believes something but wasn't there because someone convinced them that something happened. this happened when Mrs. Schachter kept saying look at the fire look at the flames and made everyone to believe that there was fire outside when there really wasn't. A real life example of believing is when someone convinces you of something that is untrue or a lie. Going mad is taking something that you know or believe and going crazy about it because the truth hurts you or what happened hurts. this happens to Mrs. Schachter when she thinks there is fire outside but there is not this is probably the same feeling she has in her heart from separating her from the rest of her family. This could happen in real life if you thought you had an extra finger and you really don't.
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Post by James J on Feb 4, 2014 23:50:39 GMT
Knowing something means that you know for a fact it is true or to be aware of it. When Moishe the Beadle is telling the story of being taken away and saying "infants were tossed in the air and used as targets for machine guns" he knows that the story is true, only no one will believe him. A real world example of knowing something is knowing that for a fact Santa does not exist. Believing something is hoping or thinking that you know something and truly thinking that it is real. For example, when talking about Elie's mother he says "we pretended, for what if one of us still did believe." This means he does not know if they are alive but believes or hopes that they are. A real world example is thinking that Santa is real and thinking that you know he exists. Madness is thinking or believing something is true to such an extent you go crazy about something that you truly believe is real even though everyone knows it not. When talking about Mrs. Schachter they say "make that madwoman shut up." They think she is crazy because she believes a fire is there even though it is not yet visible to anyone. A real world example would be believing Santa is real well into your adult life and believing or hoping it is true, causing you to be crazy about someting that doesn't exist. I think knowing something is more than that you know for a fact it is true I think that you have to encounter it. |
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Post by james j on Feb 4, 2014 23:56:56 GMT
To know means to have knowledge of a specific subject. For example, you know that there is a pop quiz tomorrow in your class. But you are the only one since you over heard the math teacher talking about it with the other teachers in the break room. I can connect this to Night by on page 30 of Night, a inmate walked up to Elie and asked for his age. Elie replied back with "I am fifteen." When the inmate heard this, he frowned and told Elie: "No. Your eighteen." Now this slightly confused Elie. Why would that man want him to say a different age then he is now? Well that meant the inmate knew something that everyone else did not know. What he knew was practically life and death situation. When that was over, he then went up to one of the Nazi workers. He asked "What is your age?" And Elie replied back with "Eighteen". Now if he had said his actual age, he could have been sent to one of the gas chambers or even the crematorium. To believe means to have a belief in a specific subject. For example, you believe that your school's sports team will win the game tonight. But another student may believe that they will lose. A connection from this from Night is that on page 26 from Night Is that when Mrs. Schacher had begun to lose her sanity and started to hallucinate. One of the men there grew furious that the woman had been having constant illusions. So he believed if they had hit her or pinned her down, she would stop for good. This cause all the men to gang up on her and hit her several times until she stopped. She did stop for the rest of the time until camp. To be mad/insane/crazy Is when the victim of the madness can not tell reality and fantasy apart, meaning not knowing whats real and what is not. A example of this is that you have gotten news that your mother was murdered. You deny this, thinking it was some cruel joke by someone. You later realize it was not a joke and you can still not tell if the situation was true or not. I can connect with this from Night on multiple pages in fact! There were a lot of actions made by the characters that they could not tell the cruel reality from the fantasy. One example is pages 24-26 when Mrs. Schacher had in fact started to lose it. When that happened, she first shut herself out from everyone, then on the second day, she had a mix of sobs and uncontrollable laughter. Then the last time she started to hallucinate visions of fire. People at first were shocked, but soon shock was quickly replaced with anger. Another example of madness is on page 37, Elie was doubting the reality and was thinking it was a dream. ~Samantha Collins 2/4/14 Knowing also can mean to encounter it and to be there to see it with your own eyes. |
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Post by Jake B on Feb 5, 2014 0:18:44 GMT
I think knowing is when you have a strong belief and have something to support it. I think belief is when you are taking a leap in the dark. No evidence of where you are going, but you think, you believe it is the right way. I think madness is more about who believes you. If you are mad then you have no credibility because you can't think about anything, but the thing driving you mad. Mrs. Schachter on the train believed that she had seen the fire, even though there was no evidence. Everyone on the train knew that there was nothing there because they looked and saw nothing. "Some pressed against the bars to see. There was nothing." She was thought as a mad woman because she had her husband and two older left on another train and "The separation had totally shattered her." People thought she had just been an emotional wreck and they just said "She is mad, poor woman..." i agree with your first statement because if you can have facts to support your argument you will be better off with people believing you. it is kind of like a debate you win with facts, and the point of a debate is to persuade someone that you are right. |
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Post by Mikaelah H on Feb 5, 2014 0:24:05 GMT
The meaning of Knowing something is thinking that something is real or that it is true and having reasoning for that what you know is in fact true. But it also has one caveat and that is that it doesn't always have to be real, it can be unforeseeable and you still know that it is real. In the book Night written by Elie Wiesel there is a character that always says this specific line over and over again, "Fire! I see a fire! I see a fire!" This is a quote that Mrs. Schachter, a women that Elie and his family accompany on there trip to Auschwitz in the Cattle Cars, says a lot over and over. It relates to the term knowing because even though the fire isn't visible to everyone else she knows it's there and her knowledge for herself is all the assurance that she needs. After awhile of Mrs. Schachter saying "Fire! I see a fire! I see a fire!" the other people in the cattle car start to loose hope for her altogether, but then she tells them one last time after they have stopped at their first destination in Birkenau (which is in Auschwitz) while waiting to be unloaded from the cattle car. She says it a final time and they look out the window only to be surprised by the one thing they thought they would never see and in this moment they too see the flames that she has been crying about the entire journey. This relates to my definition of knowing because she thinks it's real and that she see's it for the longest time and even though no one else sees it and she doesn't provide evidence of the fire for the longest time she doesn't give up on her knowledge of the fact that there was truly a fire in the distance. A real word example of the term knowing would be knowing a fact or even knowing Math because if you have your answer then you also have the formulas to back it up. In this case the formulas and work are your solid reasoning & evidence and your answer is the thing you know to be true (your knowledge).
The meaning of believing is just like hoping for something to be true and you actually think it is without any assurance or hard evidence. It is quite the opposite of knowing you just think that something could be so real but in fact most of the time it is made up and false. This is why intelligence and knowledge is key, because you never have to doubt yourself and you can be confident in what you know to be true is in fact correct. An example of the term Believing from the book Night that we have been reading in class, written by the author Elie Wiesel is a quote from the book said by Elies' Father and he said " Your mother is still a young women, she must be in a labor camp. And Tzipora, she is a big girl now. She must too be in a camp..." This shows him having hope that the other members of his family are still alive and they are doing well, which in fact might not be true but he is relying on the faith in believing that the worst thing possible is not true and that his family is doing well. A real world example for the term believing is a childhood myth where many children are told that a big jolly man, wearing a red jumpsuit and a hat, flies through the air in a sleigh on the one night of the year that most children call their favorite. They are also told that a big bunny comes and hides eggs around your house and leaves a basket full of candy for you to put them in when you find them. And a final lie that children are old is that a little fairy comes during the night and takes the tooth you have lost that day and replaces it with a coin that is probably bigger than her, herself. Now come on do you really think that those things are true, well the children do and they rely on faith that there beliefs (given to them by there very own parents) are true. Now whether or not they choose to believe that, is up to them but just like all other beliefs there is no proof.
The meaning of Madness is being crazy and doing things that are not normal and out of the ordinary. It might be that you are mentally ill of some sort but great people in history have gone mad and that is when they have done their best works of art. So madness is not always a bad thing, but in the book written by Elie Wiesel, Night, the people on the train with Elie and his father, feel that Mrs. Schachter herself has gone mad by always repeating the same line over and over "Fire! I see a fire! I see a fire!" but in fact she has figured out an important thing that the Jews need to know about these camps and that is that they cremate you after you die but they don't keep the ashes like your loving family would they just through them into a huge pile with all the other burnt souls of the innocent Jews. So in fact she helped them a lot from her being mad, which as you can know see is not always a bad quality. A real world example of being mad is the insane mathematician, Pythagoras himself, he came up with "The square of the hypotenuse of a right triangle is equal to the sum of the square of the other two sides.
" And how exactly did he figure this out? That is the question asked by many, did he just make it up one day, how? not only that but he also thought he could make his own religion and let me tell you it wasn't normal either it was MADNESS with a capital M! Some of his crazy rules were 1. Do not, under any circumstances, eat beans
. 2. Smooth out all bodily indents on pillows and/or beds.
3. Do not step over a crossbar.
4. Do not sit on a quart.
5. Do not walk on highways.
6. Do not leave the pot's impression in the ashes after removing it from the fire
. 7. Do not stir a fire without iron
. 8. Do not let swallows nest under the roof
. As you can see these are very crazy rules but he was a crazy mad man, and that mind of his, even though it was mad and insane, created an amazing mathematics world that we have and use to this day.
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Post by Ryan Z on Feb 5, 2014 0:24:29 GMT
Knowing is when you know that something is real or plausible because it has either been proven or been backed up with facts, or evidence. The Auschwitz veterans knew that if people didn't fake their age they would be gassed and burned to death. They know this from past experience therefore know for a fact that Auschwitz is a killing camp. An example in my life is after studying in a text book you know answers and facts because they have been proven by philosophers and mathematicians.
Believing is much more opinionated and is something that you personally feel is true. An example of believing would be when in the book it says "confidence soared." the jews all began to believe that things were going to be okay even though they were crammed into cattle cars and denied basic needs. A belief in my life would be my religion i follow.
Madness however is when you believe something so strongly or something so implausible that you go crazy over it. The book says "Mrs. Schachter had lost her mind." it also goes on to say "on the third night as we were sleeping some of us sitting huddled against one another some of us standing a piercing cry broke the silence. Fire! i see a fire!." This is an example of madness because Mrs. Schachter was going on and on about something that at the time wasn't there. Madness in my life would be believing a sports team has a chance to win even though they don't. I will often continue to believe they have a chance and go crazy even though they are losing.
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Post by Ryan Z on Feb 5, 2014 0:28:23 GMT
Knowing is confidently knowing a true statement. For example, I know that i will go to lunch today at 12:25 Belief is trusting confidently in something that you respect. For example, I believe that God is real. Madness is being insane. Thinking someone or something is there when it is really not. For example, the lady in the car in Night was mad because she was hallucinating things in thinking something is there when it is really not. You confidently know it because you have evidence or proof to support that something like a fact or statement is true |
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Post by Ryan Z on Feb 5, 2014 0:30:32 GMT
knowing something means you know it physically exists. meoshe knew that there were camps were they kept jews, because he went to one. a real world example is how i know that 2 plus 2 is 4. Believing in something is when you think it is real, or atleast not fake. Santa is a real world example because you can believe in him and think he exists. an example from the book is that when they arrived at the camp they thought they were going to a better place. to be mad means that you are crazy, and see or hear thing that arent there. Like the lady who thought she was seeing fire. a real life example is that like people who see ghosts or stuff. when you know it could also be a statement or fact as well as a physical object |
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Post by Mikayla W on Feb 5, 2014 0:41:04 GMT
what does it mean to know?To 'know', in its true form, is to be definite. If you 'know' something, in your mind, it is certain and true. Actually 'knowing' something, means it is true information. You can believe you know something, when in reality, you don't at all. You can back it up with proof or experiences. In the beginning of the test, an early quote, Ellie said "I set to paper an experience in which nothing made any sense?
In retrospect I must confess that I do not know, or no longer
know, what I wanted to achieve with my words."Though he wanted so badly to write this text, to convey his message, he didn't know why. He had no certain motive behind it, or a clear answer. And, that, is what 'knowing; is, in simplistic words. It is to be clear, to know indefinitely. Also: "There no longer was any distinction between rich and poor, notables and the others; we were all people condemned to the same fate—still unknown."Their fate had no define answer or secured future. Unknown. This is a perfect example.As a real world answer, you could look at many situations. Some as simple as reading the ingredients on a food item, or maybe wondering if your family member will make it out of the hospital alive. Like, lets start with the food item. You may have an allergy to milk, and at the bottom of the package, in italicized fine print, you see 'may contain milk'. You cannot know if it has traces. It is indefinite, so you choose not to eat the food. What does it mean to believe? To believe isn't the polar opposite of knowing, though you might think that. To 'believe' something, would be to assume it true. That your insight is the best, even if you are not fully sure or secure. This can help people get through the toughest of situations, providing a hope. Regardless of if it is verifiable or not. For example: "This kind of talk that nobody believed helped pass the time. The few days we spent here went by pleasantly enough, in relative calm."Nobody had faith in it, and weren't musing over the idea of this 'talk'. They didn't believe, or, in simpler words, they didn't see evidence in it, so they weren't going to give it any form of hope. Real world examples could be of religion or believing in your argument in a debate. Maybe your word isn't 100% certain. But, you think its true and positive, with little to no doubt. What does it mean to be mad?
Being mad, also referred to as being crazy, is usually that you wholeheartedly believe in something that isn't true, that isn't 'known', to the point where it becomes a part of you. As eli writes: "It was as though madness had infected all of us. We gave
up. A few young men forced her to sit down, then bound and
gagged her"her wholehearted believe in the flames, the fire, even though it was false, seemingly spread through all of them. Believe in something of false origin.A real life example: a schizophrenia patient believing in hallucinations. false, but they dont know that.In ending:
Knowing, is to be certain in a verifiable truth. believing is to think that a fact is truth, despite the absence of being verifiable. to go mad, is to believe in something that you are oblivious to it being false. I really like your definition of believing. I did not think about it that way and you put it into words really well. |
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