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Post by Maegan H on Feb 4, 2014 16:25:09 GMT
Knowing is being aware of something, but not necessarily believing it. By this i mean that you can know deep within yourself that something is happening, but you still do not have to accept it. It's sort of like being in denial. You know that something is going of but you refuse to accept that it is. For example, if your parents are getting divorced, you can know that it is happening, but tell yourself that everything is OK. Another example from Night is where Elie says, "The Germans were already in our town, the fascists were already in power, the verdict was out, and the Jews of Sighet were still smiling." This shows that even though the Jews knew that all these bad things were going on, they refused to accept them. Believing is knowing and accepting something. I'm going to refer back to my last definition for knowing. It is basically the same thing. The only difference between knowing and believing is that when you know something, you can choose to either accept or reject that information. On the other hand, when you believe something, you accept that it is true and act on it. If you don't act on what you believe, then you really only know it , don't you? For example, you can know that a friendship of yours is falling apart, but act like everything is normal, and that would be knowing. Or, you can choose to act on what you know and try to mend your friendship, and only then does it become believing. In Night, Elie says that there were rumors that the fascists were coming to power, but they did not act. Then, later, people decided to try to move out of the country, and then the people who moved started believing the rumors. Being mad is believing things that you know are not true, after they are proven not true. Even after people have proven that what you know is not valid, you continue to act on invalid beliefs, and that is madness. For example, people falsely accused Madame Schachter of being mad, before they had any proof that she was. In the end, it turned out that she was telling truths, but before anyone knew it. In real life, some people still believe crazy government conspiracys even after they have been proven impossible or untrue. They are mad. Maegan h's comment: I like your definition for believing. That isn't exactly what I thought of the definition but I do agree with you. It's an interesting definition adding on taking actions to just then believe it. |
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Post by Curtis Hildebrand on Feb 4, 2014 16:25:23 GMT
I think the difference between belief and madness is that with madness, you are obsessed over something and you don't have any evidence for what you believe in and you don't have any evidence for what you are obsessed over. "Look at the fire! Look at the flames! Over there! With a start, we awoke and rushed to the window yet again. We had believed her, if only for an instant. But there was nothing but darkness." At this time, everything that Mrs. Schächter said, there was no evidence backing up the fact that there was a fire.
For beliefs, you hold strongly to your beliefs but you have evidence for what you believe in. For example, if you believe in Christianity, you have they Bible to back up your beliefs. If you are obsessed over a fire that seemed nonexistent, like Madame Schächter was, you have no real evidence for that this is an actual fire to be screaming over. "I continued to devote myself to my studies. Talmud during the day and Kabbalah at night." This means that Elie is very dedicated to his religion and his has his studies to back up his beliefs.
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Post by Maddy O. on Feb 4, 2014 17:13:57 GMT
Knowing is when you have proof of a thought in your head.
Believing os having faith in a subject and "knowing" that it is real.
Mad: Mentally Disable, thinking crazy thoughts and plans. Very smart, just not in the right ways.
Page 25, "Fire, I see a Fire!" as Mrs. Schachter screamed. She has been through a trauma and cant get over it.
Quote: Page 39, "We thought that nothing couldn't frighten us anymore." This quote supports the subject of knowing and believeing because they believed that nothing else bad could happen to them anymore because they "knew" they have been tortured enough.
RAN OUT OF TIME....
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Post by Colson Z on Feb 4, 2014 17:15:41 GMT
To know but not acknowledge is to have fear, within ones self or within ones community. This is true because when the lady on the cattle car was screaming "Fire, Fire, I see Fire!", the people in the cattle car were just ignoring her and then when they had enough, they then beat her because they were fed up with the way that she was acting. Never once did these people think that this lady might be trying to warn people that they would be arriving at something bad when the cattle cars stopped. Also, people know secrets and do not tell them to anyone because they might fear the way that people react to the secret (the secret could cause controversy, later leading to conflict). They also could fear the way that people would treat that person after that person had shared that secret. To believe in something or someone, someone must forget all of the past mistakes about that person or thing and just focus on the goal that has to be accomplished. In Night, the belief that salvation would come was very strong in the beginning of the book, in fact there was no belief of salvation because the Jewish people did not feel trapped within a certain situation. This was because in the book the Jewish people were not worried because they had support from the other countries against Germany. "But people not only refused to believe his tales, they refused to listen to them." This shows that the people thought not of how Moishe was a good person, they just chose to believe selfishly in their own desires, and that they were safe from a threat that was coming right to their town. To be mad, especially in this situation is almost normal for anyone that has gone through these traumatic events (which almost everyone has). To be mad is to not know the difference between reality and imagination, which can lead to people having their imagination get the best of them. The woman in the cattle car who was screaming "Fire, Fire,Fire!" was thought to be mad, and so was Moishe the Beetle, but what if these people weren't really mad. What if these people were actually seeing glimpses of what was going to happen in the camps (the cremating being the fire, and the death camps/firing squads being the story that Moishe told). These people who were claimed to have gone mad, may have been perfectly sane, they were just getting information about what was happening in the camps and that then drove them act in such ways that they did while they were trying to "spread the information" to the general public. A real world example of this could be either the incident on the cattle car, or the story of Moishe the Beetle. Ian, is it possible to still know something, but still believe in another? Or do we really have to forget everything about something in order to believe in something else? |
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Post by walker c on Feb 4, 2014 17:23:42 GMT
knowing means that you understand what is happening around you for example he knows a certain sport pg 56 " we didn't know what to do". to believe means that you think a opinion is true but it is not backed up by factual information for example he believes that unicorns are real pg 25 "she still believed there was fire". madness means you have gone crazy or you have gone mad an example that man has gone mad look at him he thinks he is flying on a unicorn pg 25 " she believed so strongly about the flames she kept screaming trying to warn the other prisoners"
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Post by race on Feb 4, 2014 18:00:40 GMT
belief is when you hope something will happen or is real. "every bomb filled us with joy, gave us renewed confidence" pg.60 the bombs gave the renewed belief that they would get out of there.
a real world example is that you believe that narwhals are water unicorns
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Post by Claire L on Feb 4, 2014 18:01:24 GMT
To know means to be sure of something and confident about it. You are accepting what it is and going on with it. It means you have no doubt that you will be wrong.
Example- You study really hard for a test, and you know everything so on the test there is no way you can be wrong because you know it right before the test, you can't get it wrong if you know it because you know what it is and you are confident you are right.
Quote- "He had been thrown into prison and was about to be hanged." There is no doubt he will be hung and he was in prison.
To believe means that you have strong thoughts on something. It may not be right, but you have all your hope and faith in your belief that you are.
Example- If you believe that someone will not get hurt doing something, there are lots of different outcomes to what could happen but you are confident in your self that you are right, but if that person does get hurt, you were wrong and you accept being wrong.
Quote- "There would no longer be any doubt: Germans would be defeated. It was only a matter of time, months or weeks, perhaps." They do not know for sure, but they believe and have hope that they will be, even though they don't know for a fact they will be safe from them.
Madness is being ridiculous and not being real with something. You have gone crazy and are not thinking right. Lots of other people would disagree with what you have done or are doing.
Example- If someone thinks that they see something but no one else sees it, you would think they are crazy because no one else can see what that person is seeing.
Quote- "The Gestapo had threatened to shoot him if he talked." This is a little crazy because it is ridiculous that they aren't allowed to talk or they would shoot him. It seems crazy to all of us but the person that would shoot him or the one who orders him too.
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Post by Alex A on Feb 4, 2014 18:01:46 GMT
To know something it has to be proven to you and tested. They can be proven to you by seeing it hearing it, experiencing it and many other ways. Moshie the beadle "knew" that there were concentration camps because he went through the process and that is how it was proven to him. The reason why everybody else did no "know" about the holocaust because Moshie had no physical evidence to prove to the people. In real life we "know" that 9/11 happened because there were many witnesses, videos, pictures and reliable stories about it like magazines.
To believe in something means you think you know it exists or you have probable cause that it does. There is no evidence that it exists but there is no evidence that proves it does not. Quote: "Freed from the Barbers" The people believed that the pain would end soon because they were free of the people who were tormenting them and that was hope or probable cause that it was true which is why people believed it. There was no evidence making it certain, but also no evidence saying it was not.
To be mad or crazy means you believe that something is real when it has be proven not real. Or you are hindered from being able to distinguish real life and fantasy. Like the girl in the train who believed she saw fire multiple times when everyone had seen that there was no fire anywhere around and that she was just seeing things. In real life people who have schizophrenia believe that they hear voices of people who may be alive or dead and it has been proven that there are no voices near them to where it is real people talking to them.
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Post by anonomous on Feb 4, 2014 18:01:57 GMT
im the man im the man im the man
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Post by eminem on Feb 4, 2014 18:03:34 GMT
THERES A MONSTER UNDERNEATH ME BED HAALLPPPPP
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Post by Alyssa C on Feb 4, 2014 18:04:49 GMT
Knowing something means that you are 100% confident in it, and you may have evidence that it exists. You can say it and you know that you are right. For example, I know where I live, because I go there every day, and I have been doing that for like 10 years. In Night, Elie knows that the Germans are killing baby Jews, because he saw it with his own eyes, when you see something with your own eyes, you can be confident in it, even if other people don't believe you- you know it happened. He says "Infants were tossed in the air and used as targets for machine guns." He SAW that happen, therefore he knows it happened.
To believe something is when you have a strong opinion on something, and you really believe, or support the cause. Even if other people don't agree, or believe in the same thing, that doesn't change your opinion on it. For example, I believe in God. Not all people do, but that doesn't mean that I can't. In the book, Elie says "Tomorrow could be worse yet", he believes and thinks that tomorrow could be worse than today, but not everyone thinks the same. Some people could think that tomorrow will be much better, it all depends on what kind of person you are.
To be mad is like being mentally ill, like the person is crazy, insane even. Like for example, people who think they hear voices, or see ghosts. AN example from the book would be the lady- Mrs. Shachter. She thinks that she sees a fire, even though no one else sees it. She is intent on what she sees, and people are even saying "She is mad, poor woman...". People call her crazy, but she doesn't care- she's gone mad.
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Post by MILEY CIRUS on Feb 4, 2014 18:08:41 GMT
I CAME IN LIKE A WREECKKIIINNNGGGG BALLL..... lol jk
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Post by walker c on Feb 4, 2014 18:10:17 GMT
Knowing means that you have information that is true and real. In order to know you need proof to explain everything. "Then for no apparent reason, he let out a terrible scream, a death rattle such as i had never heard before and, with an open mouth, thrust his head toward the still steaming liquid. We jumped at the sound of the shot." Pg 60. If you disobeyed orders you would be hurt or killed. For example, I know that my health paper is due today because it is typed on the rubric the teacher gave us. Belief is where you think something is going to happen or has happened but you have no real proof. "Look! Look at this fire! This terrible fire! Have mercy on me!" Pg 25. When other people looked for the fire nobody saw it, but she still believed there was a fire. For example, I believe that some magic tricks could be real but I have no proof. Madness is where something literally drives you crazy so you can't function properly. "She is hallucinating because she is thirsty, poor woman... That's why she speaks of flames devouring her..." pg 25 She believed so strongly in the flames that she kept screaming and trying to warn the other prisoners. She was right about the flames, but at the time nobody believed her because she was hysterical. For example, something that is mad (crazy) is when somebody believes that Africa is a country when they are 30 years old.nina you have some great quotes but they do come from fairly early on in the book so maybe use some from around the point of the book we are currently in |
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Post by Alex A on Feb 4, 2014 18:12:00 GMT
I agree that you have to experience something to best "know" it.
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Post by Ansley Z on Feb 4, 2014 18:12:18 GMT
Know- When you know something it means you have proof or evidence of something. A quote for knowing something: "If someone managed to escape they would be shot." They knew this because they had proof from other people. The Germans said so themselves... that if the Jews tried to escape they would die.A real life example would be if you learned how to do subtraction in math class. You would KNOW that you were doing subtraction the right way because you had proof from your teacher.
Believe- When you believe something it means you think it's right, and it hasn't been proven to be wrong but there is no evidence for it to be right. A quote for believing something: "Auschwitz. Nobody had ever heard that name before." This is believing something because nobody knew anything about it. So the Jews had to believe what they had heard about Auschwitz from other people. A real life example would be if your friend started a rumor about somebody but they had no proof. But they didn't have any proof that the rumor wasn't true either. So you would just believe what they said.
Mad- When you are mad you just HAVE to be right that you have gone crazy about whatever you are trying to prove. Then people don't wnat to believe you because you are so crazy. A quote for being crazy/mad: "God alone could answer you. For heaven's sake, get up... He hah no idea what I was talking about. He probably thought I had lost my mind." Elie was screaming about how they were all going to get expelled and even though he was right, the people couldn't believe him because the way he was screaming and talking made him sound so crazy. In real life being mad would be if you thought you saw a person in your closet. And you kept screaming to your parents that there was someone there but they couldn't see anyone. You would be considered mad because you were crazy about something that you thought was true.
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